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Post by zirui on Feb 1, 2018 22:32:01 GMT
In the recent video Brother Doug posted he said that the vast majority of people about 80% he saw got the baptism of fire and a lid eventually failed and blew there lid-off m.youtube.com/watch?v=c1ZFjY3CIwc. My question is this should most believer not attempt to reach the baptism of fire level because the consequences of failure Hebrew 6 is quite severe? Because the failure rate is just too high the risk might not be worth it. Although if you do manage to endure and make it the reward is quite high too. Reminds me of investments in high risk stocks and bonds. The closer one gets to God the greater the consequence if a person falls away. Moses struck the rock in stead of talking to it. Because of that he could not enter into the promise land. If one reach the baptism I of fire and get a lid on their cup just to lose all the good stuff and become a tiny cup again is really sad. All that growth led to such a sad result. Perhaps the safest place is to reach the edge of holiness almost at baptism of fire so that in case failure would happen it would not have to risk the triggering of Hebrew 6.
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Post by Larry Marquez on Feb 2, 2018 6:16:55 GMT
So does that mean our relationship level with God is up to God?
Like how some are apostles, prophets, teachers, shepherds, or evangelists.
(Thought this part was interesting about hearing God talk) " “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth." Acts 22:14 NIV
Edit: (Doug has mentioned how we shouldn't fast unless God tells to.)
" But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. " - 1 Corinthians 6:8 NIV
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Post by waris on Feb 2, 2018 17:51:16 GMT
Just pray for God to make you ready for the baptism of fire in a way that you won't fall after it and lose your lid. Ask Him to baptize you with fire when you are ready. I think most people fail because they don't know how to handle warfare for large amounts of time or they don't have that much long-suffering.
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Post by waris on Feb 2, 2018 17:54:15 GMT
So does that mean our relationship level with God is up to God? Like how some are apostles, prophets, teachers, shepherds, or evangelists. (Thought this part was interesting about hearing God talk) " “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth." Acts 22:14 NIV Edit: (Doug has mentioned how we shouldn't fast unless God tells to.) " But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. " - 1 Corinthians 6:8 NIV Where does he say that? I think he has said something like that it's not God's job to sustain us in a fast if it wasn't God's idea.
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Post by zirui on Feb 2, 2018 18:33:51 GMT
Waris have you or anyone’s you know obtain the baptism Of Fire and maintained it? Do they have any tips on how to survive, endure and not fall? It is very disappointing to hear that the failure rate is so high. What’s the cause? Was it Satan? Was it the flesh? Was it the world? How did so many who reach that pinnacle fall there may be some correlation some common reason that cause them to fall. If we can find it and prepare against it maybe we can improve the survival rate!
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Post by waris on Feb 2, 2018 19:32:09 GMT
I honestly don't know if i have hit the fire baptism. I can't see what i look like in the spirit and i can't hear God like Doug hears Him. I wonder if there is a video of the signs a person has gone through the baptism of fire. For me there are some things that i don't do anymore and do that i didn't before, but i don't know if it's fire baptism or just a full cup. Maybe you can email Doug about the cause of falling after fire baptism/ how do you know if you have hit the fire baptism.
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Post by zirui on Feb 2, 2018 20:09:42 GMT
Do you know anyone who has? Special forces hmmmmmmm? I guess it’s not easy being apart the elite force.
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Post by moni on Feb 2, 2018 21:22:47 GMT
In my uninformed opinion n based on suspicions... I think if you went thru the baptism of fire you would know it. Like it would just strip you down to the few pieces. Thats how I understand it.
Honestly thats my struggle. That its better not attempt that cause the risk is so great. Someone might say my faith in God is small because of that. But then what about people who hit the baptism. Was their faith great? If so why did they fall away. Of course they fell because their weaknesses. Thats why im afraid. Of my own weakness n my own mistake. If they had faith to reach there but still fell away.. what makes me better than them? I cannot be trusted. They couldnt either
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Post by zirui on Feb 2, 2018 22:07:15 GMT
I suppose Hebrew 6 verse 7 and 8 Sorta explains why failures can happen.(7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.)
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Post by Larry Marquez on Feb 2, 2018 23:12:12 GMT
So does that mean our relationship level with God is up to God? Like how some are apostles, prophets, teachers, shepherds, or evangelists. (Thought this part was interesting about hearing God talk) " “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth." Acts 22:14 NIV Edit: (Doug has mentioned how we shouldn't fast unless God tells to.) " But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. " - 1 Corinthians 6:8 NIV Where does he say that? I think he has said something like that it's not God's job to sustain us in a fast if it wasn't God's idea. Don't remember the exact video. I think this video relates to this thread. Watch at 11:59 youtu.be/Zq7vyQh03Do
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Post by christopher on Feb 3, 2018 0:28:55 GMT
Guys I think its helpful to point out that its a likely scenario that what Doug said is a bit of an exaggeration. What he said is that a vast majority of people that he's seen hit the fire fell away. He then specified that a vast majority is more like 80-90 percent. I don't think he actually calculated that out but its likely he just said it for emphasis.
Anyway, I don't think the point of what he said was to inform people of actual baptism of fire survival rates but to give people more fear of the Lord. We should NOT go into this casually and remember that the cost is that we have to lay it all down. I definately do think this is related it what he said about the Navy Seals. The training is brutal and part of the reason for that is to weed out those who aren't all the way committed. If we have enough fear of the Lord, trust that he can get us to where we need to be, refuse to give up and rejoice in affliction, we are going to make it. We have to walk in fear in trembling.
I think it requires coming to the place the Disciples did in John after Jesus asked them whether they were going to leave him after he preached that sermon that that sounded like canibalism.
"Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." John 6:63 NIV
If we have no where else to go but Jesus we'll be ok.
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Post by Jeff G on Feb 3, 2018 0:30:32 GMT
I guess I want to clarify what we mean when we say a person reaches the Baptism of Fire and then fails. I see three possibilities for the state of the person after this occurs: 1) The person still belongs to Jesus, but their cup shrinks down to being like a shot glass. (Doug uses this kind of language in the video between 37:12 - 38:11, so I think this might be what he's talking about.) 2) The person falls away from the Lord, in the sense that they are no longer saved, but has not reached the place where repentance is no longer possible. 3) The person falls away with no chance of coming back. So, I really don't think Doug is talking about #3. (At least not in general - in specific cases perhaps) And I don't even think #2 is what is in mind here. Okay, so going from being really shiny with a giant cup back down to #1 certainly sounds bad (and it is). But it is much different than actually falling entirely away from the Lord. Maybe you disagree with my interpretation of what Doug meant, and that's fine. I just think it's useful if we're clear about what we're talking about.
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Post by zirui on Feb 3, 2018 5:00:52 GMT
I understood stand 1 and 3. But 2 I never heard of that on either before. Has Doug ever mention an example of that?
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Post by Larry Marquez on Feb 3, 2018 14:13:13 GMT
" Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. " - Romans 12:1-2
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Post by Jeff G on Feb 3, 2018 18:54:05 GMT
As far as scenario 2 is concerned, I don't know if Doug has ever talked about someone who has reached the fire and then fell away completely and then came back. I'm not sure that even happens. I just listed it because it's a scenario I can envision. Whether it can happen that way is another matter.
Of course, it's quite possible for a person who hasn't reached the fire to fall away and then come back. Plenty of people lose their faith in Jesus and then come back later in life. That happened to me, for example.
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