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Post by Larry Marquez on Jan 22, 2020 21:45:04 GMT
If that happens is the baby under a curse or the parents?
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Post by James Brady on Feb 19, 2020 4:30:24 GMT
Yes, the baby is.
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Post by Larry Marquez on Feb 19, 2020 10:51:02 GMT
So what does that mean? What type of curse is on the baby? Edit: Also did Ishamel have that curse, since he wasn't born from Abraham's wife?
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Post by Jeff G on Feb 20, 2020 16:02:32 GMT
Regarding Ishmael, Genesis 16:3 says that Hagar was given to Abram to be his wife. So it seems as though Ishmael was legitimate offspring. Of course, he wasn't the right child to inherit the covenant and the promises -- but he was a legitimate child in his own way.
Indeed, Genesis 17:20 says this - "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He shall father twelve princes, and I will make him into a great nation."
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Post by Larry Marquez on Feb 20, 2020 20:36:17 GMT
Regarding Ishmael, Genesis 16:3 says that Hagar was given to Abram to be his wife. So it seems as though Ishmael was legitimate offspring. Of course, he wasn't the right child to inherit the covenant and the promises -- but he was a legitimate child in his own way. Indeed, Genesis 17:20 says this - "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He shall father twelve princes, and I will make him into a great nation." How does the curse effect the baby?
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Post by Jeff G on Feb 21, 2020 22:33:04 GMT
I don't really know much about this idea of there being a curse on the baby. As far as I know, nothing in the Bible clearly and specifically describes such a thing. But there is at least some information going in that kind of direction -- (perhaps others can fill in any information I'm missing) Deuteronomy 23:2 - "No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord." The thing is, it doesn't exactly mention a curse. But surely being excluded from the assembly of the Lord is a big deal. Also, regarding what constitutes a "forbidden union," I don't think the Torah mentions sex outside of marriage as being a forbidden union. Leviticus 18 & 20 mention a number of relationships that are forbidden - and I don't think being unmarried is one of them. In fact, if you look at Exodus 22:16-17, the remedy for a man sleeping with a "virgin who is not betrothed" - is for them to GET MARRIED. But I should add that the word for fornication (porneia) in the New Testament does seem to include any sexual activity outside of marriage - so I'm definitely not saying that this kind of behavior is OK and isn't a sin. Also, we should take into account the first child that was born to Bathsheba after David committed adultery with her. The child died. "Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord, the child who is born to you shall die” 2 Samuel 12:14. Perhaps this is an important detail regarding any sort of curse on a child. OK - so in my mind the situation seems pretty complicated, and it really isn't so clear.
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