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Post by Jeff G on Mar 19, 2019 2:33:45 GMT
Have any of you ever heard of Michael Heiser or know much about what he teaches? Part of what he talks about that isn't so common is various kinds of spiritual beings - he talks about something called the divine council. So, for a lot of people in the Church, their terminology mostly consists of God, angels, and demons. But the way Heiser discusses these things goes beyond this. Part of why I mention it is that The Bible Project on Youtube has a series of videos coming out on spiritual beings, and Heiser seems to play a significant role. So perhaps more people are getting exposed to his stuff because of that series. Here's a playlist
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 14:19:19 GMT
The divine counsel.... I've heard that term before and to be quite honest, I'm very cautious. Angels exist, so do demons. Angels exist to carry out only the will of GOD. Demons exist only to drag people to hell and torment them. But GOD ultimately has authority over all 'spiritual beings' so I dont study them or magnify them.
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Post by Jeff G on Mar 19, 2019 15:23:35 GMT
Yep - I think the idea of the divine council deserves to be handled with caution and skepticism. Indeed, some of what Heiser says is definitely controversial. But I do think some people should look into it (perhaps others in the Body do just fine by ignoring these things). I realized that the major issues here can be seen by looking at a single verse - God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: -Psalm 82:1 ESV (other translations). One of the controversial things Heiser does is he takes the word "gods" here seriously - he says it refers to actual spiritual beings. This would tend to make a lot of people uncomfortable. But it's not as though he isn't a monotheist - it's just that he's saying the usage of the word "elohim" by the biblical authors is wider than what most people realize.
OK, I don't want to say too much about this now. Maybe the above will give people a taste of what they're getting into if they go investigate this stuff. Again, I'm skeptical of certain aspects of this myself.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 15:39:35 GMT
Now this has piqued (sp??) my curiosity, but that will have to wait for now. Will try to check it out later. Thanks for making us think! But again, I tend to go with the concept: "Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out". Yes, I borrowed that quote, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 17:44:27 GMT
Mmk, I have a bit of time now to look it up. I'm reading the PDF document. I dont like videos, I prefer to read something.
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Post by Larry Marquez on Mar 19, 2019 18:52:44 GMT
I think that verse is translated wrong. The Hebrew word means congregation. biblehub.com/text/psalms/82-1.htmAlso with other "gods" Doesn't Jesus say something similar in John 10:34? "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'? " Maybe it's just a classification of identifying a creature as a spiritual being? Like how it was kind of mentioned in the bible project video? I disagreed with their interoperation of armor of God. It seems in the bible project video they presented "armor of God" as a metaphor and not a spiritual reality. Since that seems to be the truth based on Doug's videos and other people I've met or talked to. Edit: Please pray for me to know how draw closer to God and surrender all the way. Been wasting time with entertainment media because I don't know how to apply myself because I don't knw what I'm exactly supposed to be doing. Also maybe one part of me is afraid of what God is going to tell me. Explained this statement to a Christian couple I met at work and the wife said "God will tell you the truth, you may not want to hear it, but he does it out of love. (paraphrased) " (Analogy) I don't want to treat God like how you see people start a fire with rocks and trying to make a spark on wood. (Analogy Ends) Basically "do X and God will do X" Some people say just worship God by singing to him, some people say just read the bible, some people say pray in tongues, some people say fast, Doug says be quiet and listen and others have said try applying Isaish 58 (Don't know how to apply the spiritual part of that).
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Post by Jeff G on Mar 20, 2019 1:21:17 GMT
OK - perhaps the word "council" is a fairly non-standard translation, as most other translations seem to have "congregation" or "assembly." But the question still remains - what kind of divine assembly are we dealing with?... What does that even mean? Because some interpreters hold that Psalm 82 has to do with God ruling in the midst of human rulers, while others think it is some sort of assembly of spiritual beings.
Understanding what this Psalm is all about will help us to understand what Jesus was saying in John 10:34 when He makes reference back to Psalm 82:6.
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Post by Larry Marquez on Mar 20, 2019 3:09:27 GMT
OK - perhaps the word "council" is a fairly non-standard translation, as most other translations seem to have "congregation" or "assembly." But the question still remains - what kind of divine assembly are we dealing with?... What does that even mean? Because some interpreters hold that Psalm 82 has to do with God ruling in the midst of human rulers, while others think it is some sort of assembly of spiritual beings. Understanding what this Psalm is all about will help us to understand what Jesus was saying in John 10:34 when He makes reference back to Psalm 82:6. Maybe it relates to 1 kings 22:19-23? "19Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’ “One suggested this, and another that. 21Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’ 22“ ‘By what means?’ the Lord asked. “ ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said. “ ‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’ 23“So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.” "
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Post by Matthew on Mar 20, 2019 6:39:34 GMT
I’ve heard of it, but my cousin has looked into it a lot more. Heiser has a 4 part “Supernatural Seminar” and I believe she’s watched all 4 and taken in-depth notes. I’ll ask her if I can share them. It seems there’s truth to what he talks about (don’t know about all of it), but this is some really deep stuff and requires a lot of seeking. I have personally wasted enough time seeking knowledge and other things, so unless God wants me to delve into this, I’ll stay out of it. Although, one good thing that has come out of what I’ve heard is that it gives you a different perspective, and helps you have a different outlook on this life that God has created. We come from such a one-sided, close-minded view with religion and everything. Our minds are already made up because of the traditions of man and we act as if we have it figured out. Jesus Himself, when, in Scripture, He speaks of the things in the heavenlies and other spiritual things, it’s sounds so foreign to this world and it seems (obviously so) that He had such a deep revelation of the heavenly things way beyond what God has revealed to any other man. It’s all so beyond us and our human intellect. I’m okay with just being a kid and allowing Dad to do all the work and He’ll tell me things when I’m ready
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 13:57:16 GMT
That was beautiful Matthew. I sometimes become very fascinated by these things, but at the same time I am very cautious. I'm all for breaking out of the traditional mold, but not compromising the most basic and foundational truths. I don't think that this 'counsel of the gods' thing is a salvational issue or foundational, so for now I am shelving it while I focus more on other things HE seems to be leading me towards. But maybe I will go back to it more in depths one day.
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Post by Matthew on Mar 21, 2019 3:57:02 GMT
Alright, I spoke with my cousin today and she gave me permission to share her notes. Read them as God leads and ask Him for understanding! (I'll have to format them so give me some time to post them all, as of writing this, I've done one so far)
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Post by Matthew on Mar 21, 2019 3:57:23 GMT
Elohim & The Divine CouncilSupernatural Seminar Session 1Dr. Michael Heiser D I V I N E C O U N C I LPsalm 82 “God [Elohim] has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst* of the gods [also Elohim] he holds judgment:”*You cannot be in the midst of one. What does God say to the gods? “"How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, "You are gods*, sons* of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince."”*Notice they are plural The common view is that the gods in this council are people. Jesus quotes Psalms 82:6 to defend His assertion that He and the Father are one, but He’s not making the point of “we’re all just gods I’m like you and you’re like me” Psalm 89“Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord, your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones! For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord, a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones, and awesome above all who are around him?” Here we see they are in the skies. “The last time I checked my bible we don’t have a bunch of jewish guys ruling in the skies.” It doesn’t make sense, yet that’s what you’ll run into if you look into common conclusions. 1 Kings 22 [Context: In this scene the king of the north is Ahab, he talks to the king of the south, Jehoshaphat, and he wants him to partner with him in an alliance to destroy a city. Ahab brings out all the prophets of baal and they tell him that he will succeed. Then Jehoshaphat says, “isn’t there a prophet of YHWH around that we can ask him?” Ahab basically says, “yeah we got one of those here and I hate that guy. He’s in prison because he never prophecies anything good.” So they bring Micaiah (the prophet) out and at first he’s mocking the whole situation of the fake prophets. Ahab gets annoyed.] “And Micaiah said, "Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; and the Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, 'I will entice him.' And the Lord said to him, 'By what means?' And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.' Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has declared disaster for you."” A spirit comes forward and says “call on me I have an idea!” The point is that He has a council and He lets them get in on the decisions. Daniel 7“"As I looked, thrones* were placed, and the Ancient of Days took his seat; his clothing was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames; its wheels were burning fire. [Same description in Ezekiel 1] A stream of fire issued and came out from before him; a thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him; the court sat in judgment, and the books* were opened.” *Note that thrones is plural *Has podcast episode on heavenly books. Also it’s part of the job of the heavenly host to keep track of everything that happens. Not because God needs it or has bad memory. It’s a metaphor that God doesn’t miss anything. The supernatural realms has order and organization. The biblical writers describe its order with a metaphor that they’re familiar with which is a royal court and council. God is the King, He has a council, He has administration, the administration has certain tiered levels. G O D O F G O D S O R N O T ? These gods are real, some of them are loyal, some of them are in rebellion. The bible says that YHWH is the God of all gods. The text means exactly what it says. It gives no glory to God to say that he’s better than something fictional. “There is none like you among the gods, O Lord, nor are there any works like yours.”Psalms 86:8 “For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods.”Psalms 95:3 “For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; he is to be feared above all gods.”Psalms 96:4 “All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless idols; worship him, all you gods! ... For you, O Lord, are most high over all the earth; you are exalted far above all gods.”Psalms 97:7, 9 “Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever.”Psalms 136:2 “"Who is like you, O Lord, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders?”Exodus 15:11 M U L T I P L E G O D SWhy does this trouble us? We as westerners are trained both by culture and christian traditions to believe that the word “god” signifies a specific set of unique attributes. Things like omniscience, omnipresence, creator, sovereignty, are packed into the letters of “god.” That’s why it weirds us out to put an “s” on the end. The biblical writers did not think that way about the word elohim. There are 2000+ references to elohim. If you look into them all, you’ll run across the fact that the writers use that word for multiple things that are not the God of the bible. They don’t think about “elohim” the way we are trained to think about “god.” - God of Israel (Psalms 82:1)
- Council members (Psalms 82:1,6)
- Gods of the nations (1 Kings 11:33)
- Shedim of the nations (Deut 32:17, 1 Cor 10:21-22)
- Disembodied human dead (1 Samuel 28:13)
“They sacrificed to demons* that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded.”
Deuteronomy 32:17 *This word is shedim. These are not the demons of the gospels. There are different groups of bad guys, they aren’t the same and don’t derive from the same source. This term refers to a territorial entity. These lesser beings are referenced to as “gods” or “elohim.” Council members | “Demons” | Disembodied dead | Gods of nations |
YHWH / Godhead in the center. YHWH is an elohim, and there are lots of elohim, spiritual beings in the world. But no other elohim is YHWH. This particular Elohim is described in ways the others are not. Hierarchy
- YHWH / Godhead
- sons of God
- angels (messengers)
The word angel is essentially a job description. It describes the task of being a messenger. Any given spirit being might take a message and when he takes the message he takes on the task of being a messenger, angel. In 1 Corinthians 6, to get the people to stop fighting Paul basically says “why are you taking each other to court all the time? Don’t you know that you’re going to judge, or rule over angels?” We outrank them, if you look at the hierarchy, we are the children of God. The way God looks at the heavenly family, is a template for how God looks at us. Family and partnership, identity and mission. The supernatural realm is a template for our realm. F A Q ‘ SWhat about passages that say “none beside me” or “none like me?”- The phrases are not denials is the existence of other elohim.
- They are statements of incomparability.
- Plural elohim (spirit beings) in various verses throughout Deuteronomy. (Deut 4:35 vs Deut 4:19-20, 17:2-3, 29:24-26, 32:17)
- These alleged “denial phrases” are used elsewhere where denial of existence is not possible (Isaiah 47:1, 8, 10, Zephaniah 2:13, 15)
Why does God need a council? What would they do that He can’t? - 1 Kings 22:19-23, Daniel 4:13, 17, 24, Daniel 7:9-10
- Judgement on Nebuchadnezzar: “The sentence is by decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones” then a few verses later “it is a decree of the Most High”
- God allows participation
- He doesn’t need a council, He just likes to create beings who are like Him and let them partner with him
- Counter question “Why does God need you? Why does God even need the church?” God didn’t have to give the great commission
- He wants children who are part of the family business
What about Jesus? How can He be the Son of God if other divine sons of God are real? - John 3:16 “only begotten” is what most translations have. The greek word is “monogenēs.” Scholars came to the conclusion at first that it came from 2 words which meant only begotten. But later on with the Koine Greek, they realized it means “one of a kind” or “unique”
- Hebrews 11:17 refers to Isaac as Abraham’s “only son” [monogenēs] Abraham had other sons, in fact he wasn’t even the first born, but this son was from Sarah and was the promised son from God
- Jesus is YHWH which is unique, which is actually why He quotes Psalms 82. His point is that there are other sons of God who are not human, they’re supernatural. When He says He’s more than a man, the scripture says that category exists. He is not just a council member, He is Lord of the council
S I G N I F I C A N C E God’s supernatural family = His ruling partners in the supernatural realm. They are the template for God’s human family (identity, mission), especially God’s redeemed children after The Fall.
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Post by Matthew on Mar 21, 2019 4:17:10 GMT
What God Wanted on Earth Supernatural Seminar Session 2Dr. Michael Heiser W H A T G O D W A N T E D O N E A R T HWhat did God want?- An earthly family with Him forever
- God created humanity because they otherwise wouldn’t exist
- He wants something like Him to participate with Him on earth to both enjoy the creation and steward it, and to make the rest of the world like Eden
- God came to earth because humanity could not go to Him
What was Eden? - More than a garden...
- God’s earthly home, where God Himself dwells
- Superior to the rest of the earth. It’s a tiny piece of the whole world. Humans tasked to multiply and make the rest of the world like Eden to spread the good rule of God everywhere and be in the presence of God
- Life as it was meant to be
- Eden = a garden and a mountain (Ezekiel 28:13-14) “Eden the garden of God” ... to “the holy mountain of God” Gardens and mountains were a way to describe the most wonderful and remote environment
- It’s a paradise but it’s also other, apart
- Where God is, His family is - in this case, before humanity’s creation, His supernatural family (Job 38:5-7)
- They are God’s audience for His momentous decision...
T H E I M A G E O F G O DGenesis 1:26-27“Then God said, "Let us make man [Adam / humankind] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion [rule] over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” Why the plurals, What’s the image? Why switch to singular?- Lots of debate on the nature of the image
- Other questions largely ignored, though the plurality is assumed by most christian denominations to the Trinity (flawed)
- The Trinity are 3 coequal, co-eternal, co-omniscient persons. They don’t need information, so the conversation wouldn’t have been needed
- God is speaking to His heavenly hosts, the family that already existed
- Because it switches back to singular, when God does create humanity, He is the lone Creator
The Image: Criteria- Men and women
- Equally possessed
- Distinct from all earthly creatures
- Neither incremental nor partial; you don’t get it in stages and you either have the image or you don’t
- Passed on generationally (intrinsic; Genesis 5:1-3, 9:6)
What fails these criteria?- Consciousness
- Sentience
- Intelligence / rationality
- Emotions
- Soul-spirit
- Conscience / sense of morality
- Communication
*Dr. Heiser would teach on abortion to christian high school students. Every student said they were pro-life. He would then ask “ why?” They would say “ life is sacred” and he would say “ why?” Someone would mention Genesis 1:26 and they’d say humanity is made in the image of God. He would then say “what does that mean?” Then he would get the grocery list. Which is the list above ^ Theologians land in that list. Dr. Heiser would say “ well, thank you for making a biblical pro-choice argument.” Why do these things fail? Because they cannot be said to be present equally on all human beings. Is everyone at the same level of intelligence? Emotional aptitude? Same conscience? What about people in a coma? They aren’t conscious. You can kick off all of them. The fact that a zygote will have these criteria is a potential. Which is a pro-choice argument. Why do they fail?- Cannot be said to be present equally among all human beings.
- Cannot be said to be present actually among all human beings.
- (Some) are not unique to humankind (animals)
- All connected to brain function except soul and spirit.
“Soul?”- Humans are animated by the breath of God in Genesis 2:7 (“Living soul” = “Nephesh hayyah”)
- Animals described in the same way in Genesis 1:21 - “So God creates the great sea monsters and every living creature (nephesh ha-hayyah) thats moves...”
- Animals also have a “ruach” the word for “spirit” (Ecclesiastes 3:21) animate life
- Man gives the breath of life (nishmat hayyim) Genesis 7:22-23 (all land life)
So then what is the “image?”So God created man in His own image. - FUNCTIONAL vs QUALITATIVE
“Let us create humankind AS our image” - to be our IMAGER. The image is a function or role instead of a quality or attribute. The phrase from hebrew in Genesis 1:26 is “ in the image.” If you say “put the dishes in the sink” the word “in” denotes location. If you say “I wrote the letter in pencil” the “in” denotes the tool or instrument used. In “I broke the vase in pieces,” the “in” denotes a result of some action. In “I work in medicine, in ministry, in accounting,” the “in” denotes working as a doctor, as a pastor, as an accountant. It describes function or role. What does “imaging” mean?“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.” Exodus 20:7 Take / bare - to bare a name means to be associated with it, to take it on. To be an extension of that name and be responsible for its reputation. - A status / representation
- Verb rather than a noun
- Imagers = God’s proxies, agents to do things, representatives
- To be human means to bare the image of God, it doesn’t matter what race, income level, age, intelligence, etc.
- The grouping, tribalism, and separation of today is so contrary to what God wants for humanity
- God looks at every human as His representation of Him on earth and that gets ruined by The Fall
- Every person you come across is an estranged family member who was created for a specific reason which is to image God, to participate with God, to complete the task He has, to give the earth the kind of life God wants people to have
- Only the redeemed can do this as intended
I M A G I N G E X A M P L E : J E S U S“In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”2 Corinthians 4:4 Jesus said, “If you’ve seen me, you have seen the Father.” - God has predestined that all who believe will ultimately be “conformed to the image of His Son” (Romans 8:29)
- We will ultimately be like Jesus (1 John 3:1-3)
- Believers “have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its Creator.” (Colossians 3:10)
- “And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.” (2 Corinthians 3:18)
- To image God is to become more like Him, to follow and imitate Jesus; discipleship
- This is what you were intended to be, what every person was intended to be
“But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity."”2 Timothy 2:19 Why the plurals? (Genesis 1:26) “our image” and “our likeness”- Loops God’s supernatural children, members of his host / council, into the scene and concept of imaging
- They also image God, their Creator - in the spiritual realm
- Cannot mean we image them because verse 27 makes it clear that God is the lone Creator
His supernatural family rebels and His natural family rebels, they turn their backs on the things God wants them to have because they want control and self-rule. W H A T A B O U T E V I L ?Did God not know what was going to happen?- 1 Samuel 23 - David asks God if Saul will come down and if the people of Keilah would give him up. God says, yes they will do both things. So David departs and escapes. The point it that God foreknew 2 things that didn’t end up happening. Saul doesn’t get to the city and the men don’t hand David over, because David isn’t there.
- Foreknowledge does not necessitate predestination. God foreknows two things that never happened; if they were predestination, they’d have to happen
- There is no plan B, there is only plan A
- God could wipe out evil, but to do it He would have to wipe out all beings that are like Him
- To do the job of imaging, God shared communicable attributes with us (creativity, intelligence, rationality, emotions, and freedom)
- You can’t eliminate free will and keep the rest otherwise you wouldn’t really be like God. Free will is essential to imaging, to the whole concept
- He’s aware that although we image Him and share His attributes, we are not Him. We lack His perfect nature, we abuse the good gifts He’s given us
- There’s suffering and violence and rebellion in the world, yet God decided that making us and having the terrible outcome of sin was better than not making us at all
In the church, we often treat each other as business. If someone comes up to you and says “I don’t have rent this month I don’t know what to do.” If it were your biological brother saying this to you, you would know exactly what to do for them. Yet we don’t treat each other in this way. We are not estranged family anymore we are redeemed and brought together. If this behavior happened with frequency, do you think people would notice the church? God was willing to be grieved by the suffering in the world, for His family. If you think you are grieved by the world, God sees everything. You don’t have a greater awareness of the misery and suffering of the world than He does. Still, this outcome is preferable than to not have us at all. The story of the bible is God trying to return humanity back to recover its identity, to bring people back into the family, then partner with Him to repeat the process. We are constantly prevented from accomplishing this by supernatural enemies, the humans that are deceived by those supernatural enemies, and the effects that the supernatural rebellion has on us.
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Post by Matthew on Mar 21, 2019 4:41:42 GMT
Divine RebellionsSupernatural Seminar Session 3Dr. Michael Heiser T R A D I T I O N D I S C O N N E C T I O NWhy is humanity so corrupt? Why is the world so wicked?Traditional christianity would say The Fall, but the biblical Jewish explanation would have three answers. - The Fall (Genesis 3)
- Sons of God (Genesis 6:1-4
- Babel (Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Psalm 82)
Three RebellionsRebellion | Fallout | The Fall | Death, estrangement from God | Sons of God | Lethal threat; demons; corruption | Babel | Abandonment; idolatry; misery |
You expect the Messiah to cure all three problems, not just one. Not only to fix Genesis 3, but the others and that is what you get in the new testament. T H E O R I G I N A L R E B E L Eden: The Cosmic Mountain- A supernatural rebel, not a mere snake
- Genesis 3 isn’t trying to teach us about zoology or evolution
- In ancient Egypt, supernatural throne guardians were depicted as serpents or dragons because they are dangerous entities
- Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 make this clear, this individual decides “I want to be the most high, the one in charge, I don’t like God’s decision to make humans part of our family”
- Provokes humanity to rebel
- Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 - identified as a serpent, God’s original rebel who is His original adversary
See note titled “The Divine Council Context” to see overlapping of Ezekiel & Isaiah. The point is that the dwelling place of God is more than a garden, the serpent is more than a snake. These are images designed to convey the dwelling place of God. The fallout of the first rebellion - Estrangement from God
- Humanity not at home with God; a broken home (chaos - describes every condition or set of conditions that is contrary to the way God wants things)
- Death / mortality
- The serpent is “cast down” out of the presence of God to the Earth / Underworld (‘erets)
- The serpent becomes lord of the dead (everything dies, decays, corrupts)
- He owns humanity and their destiny because being separated from God means eternal death
The realm of death- De-creation
- Dis-order (chaos)
- Anti-Eden
- Inhospitable, threatening
- Desert wilderness, barrenness, creatures associated with death (Isaiah 13)
- Azazel, Rephaim spirits, etc.
Wilderness? In Isaiah 13, the writer uses the vocabulary of desert creatures to describe demonic beings. Residing in the wilderness because it is inhabitable and a place where you will die if you go. Owls and hyenas are creatures that consume unclean, dead things. Azazel? In Leviticus 16, the name Azazel is mentioned. In second temple literature, Azazel is satan. In the text, Aaron offers two goats, one for the LORD and one for Azazel. “But the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.” The priest puts his hand on the goat symbolically transferring the sins of the nation and sends it out into the wilderness, the place where death is because that’s where sin belongs. Rephaim spirits? In Isaiah 14, God is speaking to the supernatural rebel. “"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star*, son of Dawn*! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!” *The hebrew is “helel ben-shachar” which means “shining one.” The latin translation is “lucifer.” “You said in your heart, ... 'I will make myself like the Most High.' But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.” In verse 9, it says that Sheol rouses the “shades” to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth. The word “shades” is that word “rephaim” which is one of the names of the giant clans. They’re in Sheol because they got killed. U S U R P I N G T H E I M A G EThat verse in Isaiah 14 will be referenced to as the origin of demons. Controversial Passage ; Genesis 6:1-4- The sons of God see the daughters of men, cohabit with them and have children with them called the “nephilim”
- 2 Peter 2:4-5 and Jude 6 “angels that sinned”
- It describes a supernatural rebellion before the flood where the offenders were “cast into hell” and imprisoned there in “chains of gloomy darkness”
- In Genesis 6, the ideas in quotes above aren’t there, which means that Peter and Jude are getting the ideas from somewhere else that provides more context
- Ancient books like 1 Enoch, Jubilees, and the Book of Giants (Second Temple period) - all part of the Dead Sea Scrolls
- Peter and Jude are reading jewish commentary on this specific passage and they bring some of that material into the New Testament
Mesopotamian flood stories pre-date Genesis. The biblical story is both historical and theological. It’s responding to the Mesopotamian religion. Books like Enoch preserve the original backstory to Genesis 6:1-4 and verse 5... “The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”How do you go from the sons of God violating the boundary between heaven and earth to all the men being wicked all the time? The Apkallu - Mesopotamian Thought- Has the idea that this supernatural corruption is actually a good thing “babylon mentality”
- The culture heroes from before the flood, viewed as good guys and not sinister demonic beings
- Seven sages created in the river (Akk = watery abyss)
- Ensured the correct functioning of the plans of heaven and earth
- Taught men “wisdom,” “medicine,” “craftsmanship”
- The “wisdom” taught by the apkallu to the Babylonians corresponds to the forbidden knowledge that 1 Enoch says corrupted humanity and drove them away from YHWH to idolatry
- Apkallu figurines are found in building foundations (the figurines are called Akkadian matsarey which means “watchers”)
- The “higher gods” decided to destroy humans with a flood
- Apkallu found a way to preserve their knowledge within humanity
- Lists 7 pre-flood kong’s, each of them accompanied by an assisting apkallu - gives the king knowledge for civilization
- Four post-flood apkallu mentioned described as being “of human descent,” the 4th described as only “two-thirds apkallu”
- This above description was given to Gilgamesh who was a giant (also mentioned by name in Qumran’s Book of the Giants)
In jewish tradition, they would say demons come from rephaim who have died. A demon is a disembodied spirit of one of these guys. Wouldn’t it make sense to equate a “false teacher” for an “apkallu?” Or one of the fallen sons of God because they were believed to lead people astray. In the gospels, demons are called unclean spirits. To parallel, when referring to unclean foods in the text, it would be “forbidden mixtures.” (As in mixing our humanity with their fallen DNA) This is why the watchers are called bastard spirits in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It’s important to understand that you have supernatural enemies, who are intelligent evil, who enjoy and seek your destruction. The Messiah- The Messiah must reverse what happened in Genesis 6:1-5 (depravity, even the giants)
- Giants taken care of by three OT archetypal precursors to the Messiah
- Moses
- Joshua - defines success as “there are no more Anakim in the land” except the ones that escaped to the Philistine cities
- David - takes care of the rest of the line
[li]Depravity dealt with in a different way[/li][li]The law added to slow down human destruction [/li][li]Messianic role telegraphed cryptically (except for the literate second temple jews who knew what to look for.. check out Dr. Heiser’s teaching on the timing of Jesus) - Timing of Jesus birth (date, Noah traditions)
- Four women in Jesus genealogy
- Galatians 3:19-20
- Doom of the Watchers commemorated in baptism (1 Peter 3:18-22)
[/li][/ul] Peter mixes the flood, the angels that sinned, the spirits imprisoned, Noah, the ark, and the resurrection all in one because in his mind, all of those are related. You have resurrection, then ascension, and then the Spirit comes to dwell in people and help them not destroy themselves. All of them are connected. C O S M I C G E O G R A P H Y The Third Rebellion ; Babel- Genesis 11 - the story we know
- Deuteronomy 32:8-9 - the story we don’t know (it’s never taught)
“When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. But the Lord 's portion is his people, Jacob is his allotted heritage.”
Instead of overspreading the earth, they congregated at Babel and built a tower to make themselves a great name. It was the opposite of what God asked of them. There was a fall in Eden, which meant death and estrangement from the Father and Creator, then another rebellion of wickedness and depravity among the human population that was so great that every heart was only evil continually. So He sent a flood, saved a remnant, they had 120 years to repent, but almost no one did. God still isn’t giving up, He wants a family. All they have to do is believe that He is who He says He is and obey. So what happens next? “Let’s build a tower so we’re famous!!” Ziggurat Tower - Mesopotamian structure to connect heaven and earth for sacrifice and barter with a god or the gods
- Built to bring the deity to you
God still loved humanity and didn’t want to enslave them, so He judged them accordingly and divided them and assigned them to other sons of God. If they still aren’t willing to be loyal to Him, He says His portion is His people, Jacob His allotted heritage (creating more humans.) Abram & Sarah who couldn’t have kids were who He chose to supernaturally enable them to have a child so that from this seed, this sort of people would know that they exist because of His power. Sons of God or sons of Israel? Many bible versions say the sons of Israel, the Dead Sea Scrolls say the sons of God. *Look up Dr. Heiser’s article if interested for more. Babel & Deuteronomy; What’s up? - Nations divided at tower of Babel
- Nations = Genesis 10 “Table of Nations”
- Israel didn’t exist at the time - “sons of Israel” doesn’t make sense
- Disinheriting of the nations
- Not permanent
- Genesis 12 - Call of Abram to create anew for Himself (His “portion”)
- Promised seed / blessing (Genesis 12:3)
- Exodus 19:5-6 “kingdom of priests” - priests are a mediator between God and men
- Acts 17:24-27
[li]Disaster of Psalm 82 - chaos among humanity and it ends with “ Arise [greek word for resurrection], O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations” [/li][li]It happens a few times where the word for resurrection is associated with the reclaiming of the nations - and Paul knows this! [/li][/ul] Cosmic Geography Old Testament The idea of scattering the nations, assigning them to other gods, and those gods become corrupt and destroy their nations, turn the hearts of people to idolatry - it’s a mess. After the flood, everyone knew who the true God was. After Babel, things go downhill. Still today, the pagans believe that they worship the gods they do and others worship the gods that they do because that’s how the Most High wanted it. The nations around Israel are under dominion of fallen gods. Foundation of spiritual warfare and cosmic geography! Explains a number of passages for example: - Daniel 10:13, 20-21 (Daniel 12:1) - prince of Persia, prince of Greece ; supernatural princes over nations
- 1 Samuel 5:1-5 - Philistines capture ark of the covenant, set it up in the temple of dagon, the head of dagon ends up face down, they fix it and the next day it ends up a stump with the hands and head cut off, to this day where they found dagon defeated, the priests of dagon don’t even tread on that place - that ground is under dominion of YHWH
- 1 Samual 26:17-19 - David gets driven out of Judah, sheds tears over Saul hating him and wondering how he can worship the Lord because he’s no longer in Judah - God’s land
- 2 Kings 5:17-19 - Naaman the leper, captain of Syria, who has a slave girl living in his house that he captured from Israel, is whining about his leprosy. The slave girl tells him to see Elisha the Prophet so he takes his men and goes. Elisha won’t even come out to talk to him, he only gives him instruction. Naaman is insulted by the disrespect and belittles the instruction and the Jordan river. His men encourage him to try it and he’s healed, goes back to Elisha and he finally comes out to talk to him. Naaman says “now I know that YHWH is the God of all gods, I will not sacrifice to any other.” He then asks Elisha for a ton of dirt so that him and God know that he’s not worshipping the other god, to maybe even lay out the dirt and sacrifice to YHWH on cosmic geography, holy ground, land under dominion of the real God. Who knows, but the point is he wants dirt
From this point on, it’s Israel against the nations - YHWH against the gods. It gets picked up in the New Testament in the life of Jesus, in what Paul says, and in our ultimate destiny.
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Post by Matthew on Mar 21, 2019 5:04:53 GMT
Supernatural Worldview of the BibleSupernatural Seminar Session 4Dr. Michael Heiser Jesus’ Work & The New Testament Humanity is fragmented, separated from the true God. It’s one big mess. The psalmist cries out for it to end. The expectation is that the seed of Abraham will fix this, all three of the conditions. The resurrection takes care of the death problem - we will inherit the resurrection and eternal life. It brings the believer back into the family of God. [Side note] Revelation 9 describes the release of the watchers as a precursor to the end of days. M I N I S T R Y O F J E S U S Inaugurating the Kingdom & Making Fools of the Dark Powers- Expulsion of demons / demonstrating His authority (Matthew 8:28-9:1 vs. Mark 5:7-13 & Luke 8:26-33)
- Jesus addressed by demons as “Son of God” and “Son of the Most High God” while He’s in gentile territory - He is Lord of the gentile nations as well
- It points out that He is not the Messiah of the jew alone
- That title given to Jesus is referenced back in Deuteronomy and is meant to remind you of the cosmic geography
[li]Sending of the 70 disciples who have authority over demons - In the Babel story, there are 70 nations
- He is here to take back the nations, “the gentiles”
[/li][li] Satan falls like “lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18 ; dragon cast down Revelation 12) - The first coming of the Messiah results in a casting down of the devil - as does the second
- Satan has rightful ownership of the world and humanity, one of his roles is to accuse the brethren - he lays claim to every human being
- Anyone who is under the authority of Jesus is no longer under the authority of the lord of the dead
- Satan is now a prosecutor without a case
[/li][/ul] Bashan in Old Testament- In Canaanite, bathan (“serpent”)
- Moses and Joshua - both involved with the initial stage of taking the land, other regions were cleared of giants, other lands were given to descendants of Abraham, but there’s still a problem in Bashan
- Ahtaroth and Edrei - “gateways to the Underworld” in Ugaritic texts - even freaked the pagans out
- Temple of baal was at the foot of Mount Hermon
- Baal = “lord of the Underworld” in Canaanite
- Beelzebul is from Ugaritic ba’al zebul (“prince Baal”)
J E S U S & C O S M I C G E O G R A P H YBashan in New Testament - Caesarea-Philippi / Banias or Panias
- Located at the foot of Mount Hermon in Bashan
- Mark 8:27-30 (Matthew 16:13-16, Luke 9:18-20)
- Peter’s confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God
- “And Jesus went on with His disciples to the villages of Caesarea-Philippi”
- In Jesus day it was also a temple of zeus who was conceived as the most high in pagan religion
Gates of Hell- “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not be able to stand against* it”
- The catholics say that Peter was the first pope, protestants say that the rock is Christ Himself
- Dr. Heiser (and others) suggest that the rock is LITERAL, the rock where they were standing because it was known as the gates of hell - the place where the lord of the dead was worshiped
- Turning satan’s domain into his tomb
*Against not in original text, supplied by the translator; Correction - “the gates of hell will not withstand it” It reverses the image. It’s not the church taking the beating from the gates of hell, as in against, it’s the church administering the beating. Mount Hermon- Mark 9:2-13 / Matthew 17:1-8 / Luke 9:28-36
- Right after this incident “And after six days Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain”
- If you’re there and look around, Mount Hermon is the high mountain
- Where the watchers descended and created a covenant together with themselves to corrupt humanity
- Jesus takes them up this mountain and that’s where the transfiguration happens
- Manifests who He is as if to say “I’m here now, do something about it”
Vs. Mount Tabor- In early church tradition, location of transfiguration was believed to be Mount Tabor because Constantine’s mom said it was
- Earliest witness to this tradition is 4th century A.D.
- The gospels give no name and so the tradition has no biblical precedent
- If you’re in the region there’s only one mountain candidate there - Hermon
- Hermon is much higher than Tabor
Why did Jesus go to these places, do what He did, say what He said? Mark 8:31 “And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he said this plainly.” Peter then freaks out and then Jesus rebukes him “get behind me satan” The point is that if you oppose this plan, you’re on his side. They leave this area and go to Jerusalem, have palm Sunday, a week later He’s crucified - mission accomplished. Jesus goes to these places and provokes a response, sets the stage for what must happen. 1 Corinthians 2:5-8 “Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.”The disciples didn’t understand it either. There isn’t a single passage in the OT that prophecies altogether a Messiah who will be God incarnate who will die a sacrificial death and rise from the dead - all the individual items appear, but the plan is scattered throughout the Old Testament, the pieces aren’t put together until the New Testament. In Luke 24, the risen Christ is standing in front of them, and they still don’t get it. “Jesus had to open their minds so that they could understand” They only know this after the fact, through the Spirit, and come to understand how everything fit together. The kingdom has been planted and now it will grow, there’s no going back. Jesus says He has to ascend to the Father which is actually just as important as the resurrection. Why? Because unless He ascends, the Spirit will not come. Jesus and the Spirit are referred to together as one in many places. He goes to sit at the right hand of the Father to rule. T H E B O O K O F A C T SRestoring the one family of God; Reclaiming the Nations Acts 2 ; Pentecost “When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided* tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.....And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered*, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language.”*Divided - greek term “diamerizo,” if you search for that term in the Septuagint (greek bible of the early church and new testament writers) it shows up about 19 times, and one of them is Deuteronomy 32 where the nations are divided *Bewildered - greek term “syncheō” - shows up in Genesis 11, the story of the tower of Babel Babel and Acts Connected- In Acts 2, the list of nations precedes from east to west. When you hit the sea, it divides up the northern mediterranean and the southern mediterranean through Cyrenaica in Africa which is almost to Italy
- A number of those names are plucked out of the table of nations in Genesis 10 (others get a new name because of the language change to greek)
- The people in Jerusalem, the jews, are scattered all over the unknown world and they got there by exile because of idolatry - the nations that God disinherited and divorced Himself from
- God plays the long game - He knows the event of pentecost will occur, where jews from all of these nations will show up in Jerusalem and see people of their own group speaking in the other languages of the regions they’re from and telling the story of Jesus
- After they believe, they go home, this is why when Paul gets to places, there’s already believers
- The seed of the kingdom scatters
****Every Jewish territory promised to Abraham gets picked up in the book of Acts. God’s promise was that every place that his eye could see and his feet would tread on would be his land**** New Testament Cosmic Geography- To the jew first, and also to the gentile. The gospel was taken to every place that Jews are
- Acts 2 - Pentecost
- Jerusalem > Judea > (Acts 2-8)
- Samaria (Acts 8) - Northern kingdom had half bred jews, the jews wanted nothing to do with them, but God did
- Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8) - South, evidence that a group of jews left Judah during the time of Manasseh to escape the idolatry there and went down the Nile in African regions > the gospel needs to go there too. Phillip gets transported after to Azotus ; Philistine city that was not under the dominion of the kingdom of Solomon and David - writer shows that it belongs to God and in covenant territory
- Saul’s Conversion (Acts 9) / Paul
- Gentiles / Nations
- Damascus (Acts 9) - In Genesis 14, Lot gets kidnapped and needs rescuing, Abraham pursues and the Rephaim are in this list. They find Lot in Damascus.
- Cornelius (Acts 10)
- Missionary journeys (Acts 11-19)
- Paul’s Arrest > Rome > Spain (Acts 20)
Paul & Cosmic Geography“And thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation...But now, since I no longer have any room for work in these regions, and since I have longed for many years to come to you, I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain, and to be helped on my journey there by you, once I have enjoyed your company for a while....When therefore I have completed this and have delivered to them what has been collected, I will leave for Spain by way of you.”Romans 15 Paul is convinced, even though in chains, that he’ll be going to Spain. Why is that on his mind? Because he knows Genesis 10. Spain was Tarshish > the line that is not covered in Acts is Tarshish, Spain. Paul knows this, he is “the apostle to the gentiles.” Can’t be proven, but believed that Paul believed that he would not die until he would at least reach Spain, it’s the outlier. “I’ve been to every place that has been disinherited at Babel except for one” He quotes Isaiah 66 which talks about the kingdom including Tarshish. Paul refers to demons as- “rulers” (archontōn or archōn)
- “principalities” (archē)
- “powers” / “authorities” (exousia)
- “powers” (dynamis)
- “dominions” / “lords” (kyrios)
- “thrones” (thronos)
- “world rulers” (kosnokratōr)
Common denominator - terms used both in the NT and outside for geographical rulership. In Paul’s world, he’s not just dealing with demons - they’re low level. The big players are the ones that control the nations to whom authority was given to as punishment and became corrupt. E P I S T L E S & R E V E L A T I O N God’s glorified human family ruling with Jesus, their brother Believer’s Destiny - Cosmic Geography- Believers are sons and daughters of God
- In the new testament the terms “sons of God” “children of God” and “holy ones” never refer to the supernatural beings, the language shifts:
- John 1:12
- 1 John 3:1-3
- Galatians 3:26
- Romans 8:14-17
- Hebrew 2:10-13 (shows Jesus as brother and council restored - picture of you being introduced in the divine council to God and God being introduced to you by Jesus)
[li]Edenic vision restored [/li][li]Divine Council reconstituted [/li][/ul] Over the Nations“Only hold fast what you have until I come. The one who conquers [overcomes] and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. And I will give him the morning star.”Revelation 2:25-28 Morning star is messianic - it refers to a divine being who will come from Judah. In Numbers 24:17, the prophecy says “a star will go out from Jacob, and a scepter will rise from Israel.” Later in Revelation, Jesus refers to Himself saying “I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star” Jesus grants His authority to you. “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.”Revelation 3:20-21 Paul connects the resurrection of Jesus with the nullification of the fallen angels’ power. They’re not going away because they want their turf, they want to resist, but greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. Dr. Heiser gets invited to a pagan podcast and the man who runs it “Hercules” tells him that he’s so excited and can’t find anyone else to talk about this sort of stuff. For the first 10 minutes of the show, Hercules is reading him greco-roman pagan religious texts with the Deuteronomy 32 worldview. He was so excited because the bible has the same worldview as this other stuff. He asks one question, which is, “If YHWH, the Most High in the bible, set this whole thing up, where He divorced the nations and assigned other gods to them, etc., what does He want?” Heiser said he felt like Paul for a day because Paul goes into a pagan city and he knows that they share the worldview. So he can go into pagan turf and tell them that they have the right information except for the part that the same Most High became a man, Jesus of Nazareth. He died on the cross and rose from the dead and now the same Most High has now taken the authority He gave to the gods in the first place back. There’s no need to be afraid of these other gods, when the Most High wants you back in the family. Back to the Hierarchy- YHWH / Godhead
- sons of God
- angels (messengers)
In the new age to come, we will in fact, displace and replace the sons of God who are in rebellion. This is why we’re introduced in the council in Hebrews 2 because believers are reconstituted family and council of God. “The holy ones will judge the world... we are to judge angels” 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 It’s supposed to take your mind back to the supernatural divine council. We will judge the “sons of God” in that we will replace them, and we outrank the “angels.” In the end, we have a global Eden with humanity blended into the family of God. Sacred space covers the entire earth and God gets His way. S P I R I T U A L W A R F A R E Spiritual warfare is about the conflict of two kingdoms. The advance of the kingdom of God - reclaiming the nations and bringing God’s children back home. Intelligent evil wants to move herds, to control hearts and minds. To encourage self destruction and to move toward idolatry & away from the Truth. They get into government, media, leaders. The fulfillment of the great commission will bring on the coming of Jesus. The fulfillment is not being done by a number of reasons, but one of them is not math. - If 40 million people in America evangelized 1 person each in 2019, by this time next year there’d be 80 million
- With this pattern, by 2027 (23 years earlier than estimated 9.6 billion world population), it would cover 10 billion+ people reaching above the limit of the ends of the earth
So why isn’t it getting done? We’re fragmented in the church. How are we supposed to illustrate life as God indented it to be and restore Jesus’ reputation to the world [has a bad rep in the world] with all of the divisions and denominations? You can solve that reputation by being God’s imager and imitating Jesus. It’s satan’s goal that we worship any other god, but the true God. It’s as simple as assigning full loyalty to YHWH. The gospel is God’s means of bringing us back to being able to belong to Him again and worship Him alone. We feel defeated by math, we’re distracted, and we’re worldly. We’re more oriented by things of this life than of the next and that is a problem.
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