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Post by zirui on Nov 20, 2017 2:45:05 GMT
In the end once the final judgement has been completed. Will there be more people in heaven or in hell?
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Post by Monii on Nov 20, 2017 3:20:39 GMT
This bugs me.. bible says few will find the narrow path to life...
But it would make sense that Kingdom of God would have more gain than kingdom of darkness.
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Post by Larry Marquez on Nov 20, 2017 5:28:41 GMT
I'm sure it will still be a big number on both sides. There is supposed to be a big revival coming before a great persecution. Some prophets have said the bible will eventually be banned in America.
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Post by waris on Nov 20, 2017 7:13:57 GMT
The Bible says there is also a great falling away before the end comes possibly after the revival.
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Post by demetri on Nov 21, 2017 4:51:40 GMT
We'll ALOT of babies and children have died since creation. That's gotta make up for a huge number
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Post by waris on Nov 21, 2017 6:32:21 GMT
You also got to take into consideration the number of adults that have died compared to babies/children.
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Post by nobody on Nov 21, 2017 16:03:17 GMT
There will be more in Heaven if Jesus cleared out sheol when he died as some assert. For who among the Old Testament dead would have said no to a message of Grace? This is a debatable idea though, consider what's written of Judas Iscariot, God said it would be better for him if he had never been born. I am fairly certain he did commit the unpardonable sin at some point, how could betray a man doing miracles without attributing them to Satan? So the debate rages... I personally LOVE the idea that Jesus cleared out sheol, it makes the OT genocides the kindest acts God ever committed. I'll tip my hand, I kinda believe it, I can't be sure... This does keep the saying true though... No man cometh to the Father but by me. Ok now rebuke me, Im ready lol
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Post by waris on Nov 21, 2017 17:37:06 GMT
Well i believe there are two compartments to sheol. Abraham's bosom and hell. As you would see in the story of rich man and lazarus. There was a cavern/valley separating the two places, one being a place for the righteous and one being a place for the wicked. I think Jesus would have only freed those in Abraham's bosom. I don't know where abel went when he died when he was killed. At the last trump the dead in Christ will rise first, then those who are alive will be caught up in the air. The rest of the dead will be risen after the 1000 year reign of Christ. The rest of the dead are probably risen for the final judgement and then cast into the lake of fire if they don't make it. The rest of the dead could probably mean everyone who died before the cross. What is the difference between heaven and paradise? If there are people in heaven then why would the dead in Christ need to be risen? In the end hell is cast into the lake of fire. Now do you think there were more righteous than there were wicked back then pre-cross? What about pre-flood? Post-cross?
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Post by nobody on Nov 21, 2017 20:48:05 GMT
"If there are people in heaven then why would the dead in Christ need to be risen?"
I won't bother answering that because I don't care to speculate, here's a counter question though...
If there are no people in Heaven who's at the marriage supper of the lamb and clothed in white linen returning with Christ in Revelation 19?
I'm asking to see what you believe about a rapture more than anything...but also about the sheol question...
I consider all of this debatable since none of it can be proven beyond any shadow of doubt.
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Post by waris on Nov 22, 2017 1:38:15 GMT
Well I'm not sure about anything i have said about heaven or sheol. Im pretty sure people are in heaven because there are some people who stand before the throne and worshiping (which i think is in revelation) I think the bride is a people without spot or blemish since that is who Christ is coming back for. I believe that rapture is post tribulation or at least post tribulation pre-wrath. The bride is going to go through intense refinement because she is nowhere ready to be raptured now.
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Post by Jeff G on Nov 22, 2017 14:25:00 GMT
Concerning people being in heaven but the dead in Christ being raised - The promises in the Bible concerning eternal life are about bodily resurrection. God is redeeming his creation, which in the beginning he declared to be "very good."
So while it is true that many people are currently present in heaven spiritually, that is not the final state.
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Post by demetri on Nov 23, 2017 4:58:38 GMT
whoa!!! I've never totally understood the resurrection. I though we had a spiritual body within our physical bodies (so to speak) that will live on. Are you suggesting we will receive our physical but new bodies or something? Can you expand on your comment more. I'm interested to hear more.
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Post by waris on Nov 23, 2017 5:46:01 GMT
Most likely a glorified body that is immortal
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Post by Jeff G on Nov 23, 2017 15:56:53 GMT
So the standard passage regarding the resurrection body is perhaps 1 Corinthians 15:35-49. That passage clearly says the resurrection body will be different than our current bodies. Verse 44 says " It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body." So we should absolutely think that after the resurrection our bodies will be different. However, there is more information we should take into account. And this is regarding Christ after His resurrection. This can be seen in Luke 24:38-43. Here Jesus says, "a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." And then they give Him some food and He eats. So my point is that while the resurrection body is certainly different, it is still "physical" in some sense, with flesh and bones etc.
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Post by demetri on Nov 23, 2017 16:51:43 GMT
Wow. I never put 2 and 2 together when reading Luke 24. That's pretty cool.
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